All i said was seeing if you guys thought of where the issue starts. I also only defended terry by saying he has his own opinion. So dont tell me i need to research and form an opinion. I wasnt taking any sides, so there is no reason to be rude to me as if i had anything to say like terry did. Well said Vanessa, I must agree, you really need to do the research before forming an opinion one way or another, and the reason I found Mantrackers comments so offensive is he makes his living off of horses yet discards them like so much trash…and he sent similar messages to other people, myself included.
He has a right to his own opinion yes! But he does not have the right to be abusive or ignorant to others…I really hope you put the time in to learn about the issue…it will keep you from being ATTACKED, for ignorance of the issue you choose to talk about.
Hi, Okay, I appologize if my lack of knowlegde had affended anybody. Also, Telling me i should do my research and such and then come back and talk to you. While comming across rude, may i add.
I would think you would be excited to see an average 18 year old taking interest in this. I just said what about looking into breeding and such.
And no i didnt read the posts talking about it. Again, i just want to point out i didnt even take a side. Actually I think Vanessa was quite nice about it…. Hi Jessica, Earlier on in the thread the intentional breeding of horses was discussed, in great length, and is always at the forefront of this issue.
These earlier threads go into a great deal of detail on the incentives given to breeders to continue to breed animals in over saturated areas, and it is not difficult to understand why it is such a challenge to prevent breeding due to those incentives.
In order for that to change there needs to be support and pressure by the animal loving community — people who value the lives of these animals and see them as beings as opposed to products. That is where people like Mantracker could make the biggest impact to save the souls of these wonderful creatures. Especially considering his entire career is impacted by using horses. I suggest that you might want to research a bit more, and understand the issues and challenges, before you form an opinion.
Get involved, read up, and educate yourself. Being able to discuss this issue intelligently, after researching the facts, will go a long way in people treating your opinion with some respect.
I look forward to hearing more from you when you have done a little bit more to educate yourself about horse slaughter. I suggest that you start by reading all the posts in this thread and continue on from there.
Hi, I dont know alot about this subject, i just stumbled across this blog. I just thought id share my thoughts. I dont know alot about slaughter houses. But have you guys ever thought that the only reason that there is slughter houses, is because there is an overabundant amount of horses that people cant look after?
Its the same with any other animals cats and dgos there are so many cats and dogs being put down everywhere. But what about all the people breeding them, From the one comment of a breeder will have an X number of horses, to get th perfect 2. If there wasnt so many horses being bred.. Again people in china and wherever else, they eat horse meat. Its part of there ways i guess. Still learning. Im just another person with an opinion and a view.
Just like Terry Grant. Sadly, he never showed up. I only say opinionated because he would make sure we knew how he felt about horse slaughter, he even told someone fighting it to go hang herself with a bridle like they do to the horses. I get that people think there is nothing wrong with his response, but I also know from many who have come to me that they did eventually see that he was so wrong for the way he responded to me.
At first this generated more support for Terry Grant but now, you would be hard pressed to find someone who stands behind him on this. Evangeline, what you have said here sums it up better then I could ever have said it. Those who truly care about horses, no matter what condition they are in allow themselves to feel for them.
I find that really backwards since no supporter of horse slaughter can ever have the heart to look at one picture or video, read one article or story of a single horse that was ever harmed by the horse slaughter industry.
How can the supporters of horse slaughter claim to care about those very horses when they try so hard to shut those up who even sound like they are about to say anything about what those horses actually go through? How can horse slaughter supporters claim to care about the future of horses when they could care less about the present day horses?
How can they claim to care when they themselves refuse to acknowledge the fact that they their own health may be compromised by the industry they so lovingly support who could care less about them? Yes we all know there is a surplus right now, but why support the very people and industries that promote breeding at the cost of living, breathing sentient animals.
Instead of jumping on the slaughter band wagon they should take a stroll down to the nearest rescue and look into the eyes of the lucky few that escaped the kill chute, then maybe the block of ice that serves as there heart will thaw a little to allow some enlightenment in. I read something very interesting recently….. If an owner were to treat a horse in the same way that a handler treats slaughter horses in the days prior to slaughter it is a criminal offence, but once the horse is a kill animal it is deemed acceptable…..
I also think that slaughter supporters are unaware or refuse too see the negative impact this industry has…One only has to look at the story of Kaufmen Texas, which was home to the Crown dallas slaughterhouse, the town fought the slaughter plant for a decade over enviromental and animal cruelty infractions, when there were shut down and moved to Canada they incurred similar infractions and charges, including but not limited to dumping horseblood in open fields which drained directly into a river that supplied drinking water for the city of Breandon Manitoba…that does not sound like a benficial industry to me.
Just this past June the European Union set forth demands for a drug withdrawl program for horses meant for human consumption. What does this mean? Well to parapharse it means that horses will now have to live in feedlots, which are cramped, dirty and a breeding ground for equine diseases which could spread past the feedlots population BTW for a minimum of 6 months without vet care by this I mean a vet will not be able to administer treatment in any drug form to combat illness as this disquailifys them from the program.
Well said Evangeline! I can garuntee that those who are gaining from the horse slaughter industry would turn on it the second they stopped being supported by it. I know this will be viciously disputed but anyone can find this out by looking deeper into the business, person, whatever. There is zero support for horse slaughter from those who gain nothing from it. Sometimes it is hard to find the connection between supporters of the horse slaughter industry, it can seem like a six degrees from sort of thing but you can always find the connection if you look hard enough.
After discovering that fact I no longer head anything anyone who supports horse slaughters opinions. I honestly do not know how anyone can be supportive of this industry. Bouvry Exports LTD.
I will paste the documents I found very easily online that show some of the charges they faced. If you pay attention when reading the one about the Bar S Ranch, you will see that Claude Bouvry himself clearly did not care about the conditions the Ranch was in. He said state veterinarian Arnold Gertonson had numerous conversations with Bouvry about conditions at the feedlot. After reading the truth about this, if those who support horse slaughter now continue to do so after reading this atrocity, then we have found where the problem lies.
I challenge all horse slaughter supporters to still support it after reading these. I for one would not be able to look at myself or my children if I supported someone as sick as Claude Bouvry. To each their own I guess. Calgary, Alberta T2H 2S3. This is an order with respect to an un-permitted confined feeding operation located on the Northwest Quarter of Section 27, Township 9, Range 25, West of the 4th Meridian, in the County of Willow Creek, in the Province of Alberta.
In response to the complaint, Inspector Seward inspected the new confined feeding operation on January 30, and again on February 3, Claude Bouvry, sometime between and As relevant here, section 1 b. Each of the three pens confined approximately horse foals for a total of approximately horse foals. The new CFO appears to be capable of housing or is housing approximately horse foals. Thus, this CFO required a registration before it was constructed, but no application for that registration has been submitted to the NRCB and no registration has been issued.
Under section 39 3 , if the person complies with the Order, the person is no longer subject to prosecution for the underlying offence. Without a soils investigation on the site of the newly constructed confined feeding operation it cannot be determined if the liner requirements of AOPA have been met.
Therefore, with the facility already populated with animals the manure produced could be creating a risk to the environment. Under section 39 1 of AOPA, an enforcement order can require the recipient to, among other things: create a plan to ensure compliance with the Act; stop engaging in any conduct described in the Order, subject to terms and conditions in the Order; and, adopt any other measures specified in the order to effect compliance with the Act.
By April 4, , remove all livestock being confined in the facility to below the threshold levels stated in AOPA and the Part 2 Matters Regulation for requiring a registration or approval. This condition will be monitored by frequent inspections by the NRCB. Ensure no manure runoff from the facility leaves the property or enters any common bodies of water including the Oldman River.
Your request must be received by March 3, and you must clearly explain whether you want the Board to vary, amend or rescind the enforcement order and provide your reasons. If you want the enforcement order suspended until the Board review is completed, you must also include this in your written request and provide your reasons for suspending the order.
If you have any questions about requesting a review or about the review process please call Susan Schlemko at The investigators were acting on a tip. Trudging along the muddy paths of the feedlot, they videotaped the grim evidence they were warned they would find: dead horses, 35 to 40 of them rotting in pens after drowning or suffocating in up to 3 feet of soggy manure.
Four horses still were breathing but in such poor shape they needed to be euthanized, Elings later wrote in a report. At the back of the property he and McCaffree found the carcasses of 20 to 25 dead horses stacked in an open pit. The Bar S goes to trial this fall on charges of cruelty to animals in connection with that incident. State records indicate a pattern of negligent conditions at the feedlot tucked off Benjamin Road, behind the railroad tracks, just out of sight to motorists on Highway 2.
But for thousands of horses each year, the Bar S is a date with death — a way station where old, lame, neglected or merely unwanted equines are fattened up for a few weeks or months and then trucked across the Canadian border to a slaughterhouse in Fort Macleod, Alberta. The Tribune sued the Department of Livestock earlier this year to obtain public inspection records about the Bar S.
They chronicle a laundry list of concerns about the feedlot:. The Bar S was overcrowded. At times, as many as 2, horses were squeezed into exposed pens on three dusty acres. The feedlot employed only a couple of workers to shovel manure out of the pens and treat sick and dying horses. Horses too unhealthy to be kept alive were often left standing. Instead of sorting horses by gender, the Bar S corralled mares and studs together, prompting frequent fights and resulting in numerous injuries.
Pregnant horses were forced to give birth in pens where they were unprotected from bigger horses. Newborn colts and foals often were trampled to death. The Bar S failed repeatedly to brand incoming horses as a way of signifying that they had not been tested for Equine Infectious Anemia, a contagious and incurable disease, and needed to be kept in a quarantine facility.
Environmental problems also surfaced. Two months before the storm that killed so many horses, the state Department of Environmental Quality instructed the Bar S to install a system to redirect and contain stormwater runoff. Fifteen months later the feedlot has yet to do so and is now under a compliance schedule, according to Kari Smith, water quality specialist. For at least six years, McCaffree raised red flags about the Bar S. They watched as a seven-member crew used front-end loaders and a backhoe to haul away thousands of pounds of manure.
In addition to the existing list of issues, he believes some horses get overlooked when shipments are selected and consequently may languish in the feedlot for a year or more.
Despite problems documented by state investigators, the Bar S is privately owned and therefore exempt from the regulations that govern commercial feedlots, livestock department head Bridges said. Gertonson left his job in June, however, and moved to Colorado, where he is now employed by the U.
He did not return phone messages requesting comment. Benny Kropius, an agent for the Bouvry family who oversees the feedlot from Fort Macleod, said he, too, was dismayed at the number of dead horses left to decompose after the June storm. But the weather would have killed some of the horses regardless of the conditions at the Bar S, he said. Kropius blamed former manager Howie Solberg for other less-than-adequate conditions at the feedlot. Solberg left the feedlot shortly after the animal cruelty charges were filed.
The Bar S started out as a feedlot for cattle, but switched to horses two decades ago. In a typical week as many as horses are trucked the miles from Shelby to Fort Macleod. Horse meat is flown overseas and sold in butcher shops and restaurants. Horse parts also are used to make baseballs, shoes, pet food, fertilizer and feed for zoo animals.
But he questioned the notion that the Bar S ought to euthanize horses deemed too sick to survive feedlot conditions. Yet three times in the last six years livestock investigators dropped by the feedlot to find horses missing the Bar S brand. In March , two weeks after the state and the Bar S signed a memorandum of understanding outlining the branding requirement, Kropius diverted a shipment of 34 untested Idaho horses destined for the Bar S to a feedlot in Conrad without notifying the state.
Doing so violated not only the contract but state law. A veterinarian later tested the horses for EIA. They turned up negative. Kropius said the horses were taken to Conrad overnight because the Bar S was full. He said McCaffree sometimes exaggerates the magnitude of the problem.
McCaffree recommended the department beef up oversight of the feedlot and install a full-time inspector who could oversee not just branding and general compliance but the comings and goings of horses from out of state and keep track of stolen horse reports. A department investigator may visit the Bar S once every month or two, but the department relies mostly on Mike Hayes, a business owner in Valier who works part time inspecting the horses. Hayes declined to speak to the Tribune about the Bar S.
Elings did not return phone calls. Even though dozens of horses died in the storm, Toole County Attorney Merle Raph filed just five animal cruelty charges against the feedlot. Because the Bar S is a corporation, however, no one will go to jail if a guilty verdict is handed down, Raph said.
To some extent, the charges served as a wake-up call. In the 14 months since they were filed, the Bar S reduced the number of animals at the feedlot to a maximum of 1,, Kropius said. Veterinarian Clark said the Bar S now employs three or four workers to shovel out manure and give better medical care to ailing horses.
Kropius said the feedlot always had three workers, but that the new crew works harder than the old one. It was Clark, incidentally, who blew the whistle on the Bar S after the torrential rainstorm. He said the problem really begins at livestock auctions, where blind and seriously ill horses that should have been turned away are allowed in the sale ring.
Clodagh you do realize that the American Veterinary Association is heavily funded br the AQHA who spent 4 million dollors in on a pro slaughter campaign. My next point, about your refferal to the longer distances, I have this to say. The United States is a very large land mass, even prior to the ban on slaughter there were only three slaughter plants open in the United States at one point there was only two, one was damaged in a fire and was not re-opened for a year.
With no laws in place then or now mandating travel times for equines bound for slaughter, one could argue the fact that horses were subjected to an equally long and torturous journey, the industry standards have not changed only the geography has. Slaughter is nothing but an easy way out for large organizations that continue to promote breeding while knowing there is no sustainable market at this time.
Not to mention they have substantially increased breeders incentives to put more foals on the ground. Because each new foal requires a registration fee…Most of these foals will not live to see a year, while the dam is bred back to re-create the previous years foal crop. As long as slaughter exists there is no incentive for them to clean up the industry, and no law to protect the horses from harm. I have seen too many healthy sound horses loaded on to meat trucks then I care to remeber, while there former owners toast themselves with champange….
There lies your problem and slaughter is the convenient answer. It was rude, spiteful and most of all thoroughly ignorant. I have read the same statement, made by a very ignorant women, she is also an incentive breeder. I agree with you totally about Terry Grants comment, rude and above all ignorant. Thank you Vanessa! He said weather plays a big role in it, with people getting lost in the fog or snow.
Grant said that while he has not been a member of the FSAR for the past six years, due to his shooting schedule, that he is still affiliated with the group that is based in Turner Valley, near Calgary, Alberta, and now includes 75 members. Grant put his experience to work while he served as Mantracker, in locations all over Canada and the United States. He had an average successful capture rate of 70 per cent over six seasons.
An impressive statistic considering the challenging terrain, and tricky prey, who often tried to mislead him on the show. When I got mad, it was because I was mad. When I laughed it was because something was funny. The things I said just fell out of my face. Grant said the addition of a horse to the tracking game is a definite bonus.
It just takes practice. To that end, Grant has established Tracking with Terry, a business based on appearances, presentations and lectures, in which he can share his knowledge with others…and greet his fans. He is currently working on creating a tracking course, in fact. Hard to picture Mantracker on the green? Excited dachshund frolics in neck-deep Sask. Meet the world's most premature baby. More than half of Canadians under 40 see Baby Boomer legacy as negative: poll.
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